Nitin Bajaj

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the industry show. I’m your host, Nitin Bajaj. And joining me today is Kirin Kalia. Kirin, welcome on the show.

Kirin Kalia

Thank you so much, Nitin. Such a pleasure.

Nitin Bajaj

Pleasure is all ours. Let’s get started with a big question. Who is Kirin?

Kirin Kalia

Who is Kirin? Very good question. I am the daughter of immigrants. I have a father who came to United States in the 19 sixties as a graduate student from India and later went to work for an American company that asked him to go to the Netherlands. And that’s where he met my mom at a bar. That is the famous story. And somehow it worked, and they got married, and they came back to the US. And I was born, in rural Eastern Pennsylvania. I am the 1st US citizen in my family, native English speaker, grew up very American with some, you know, contact on both sides of the family and some traditions, but really, have done a lot of that later in life, through my own, relationships, and so grateful for everything that I’ve learned from my parents. And throughout my life have been somebody who loved to tell stories, who loved to create stories, who loved to share other people’s stories, and that is the red red, actually, which is a Dutch saying that the road a drat, through my life. And so that’s what’s led me to be here and be essentially a storyteller on behalf of startup founders.

Nitin Bajaj

That is so cool. And that’s such a fascinating story. And and we talked about this when when we met and and since. Yeah. And, you know, this this mix of different cultures is is really what made me leave the foundation that I had back in India and come out here and explore fascinating people, fascinating journeys. And, you know, what an amazing story. Your parents meet at a bar in Netherlands, of all places, which is famous for many other things.

Kirin Kalia

Yeah.

Nitin Bajaj

Tell us about Grow To Story. How and why did you start it? I mean, you found your passion for storytelling, but how did you know to make this passion of yours into a business? And, tell us what the mission is, what the vision is, and, and the impact you’ve been able to create for these, startup founders.

Kirin Kalia

Yeah. Thank you. I am a what I call a late blooming entrepreneur. This was not really ever part of my plan. It certainly wasn’t something my father encouraged me to do. I was supposed to major in computer science. I was supposed to become a patent lawyer. I should do something that’s very, you know, clearly, you know, professional and stable and pays well. Right? And so I went off on my own, becoming a journalist because that was something that I really enjoyed, growing up. Frankly, I wrote my first news article in high school. And so wanted to go in the direction that I felt called to and and and had to really fight for it in in many ways, with with my dad, who, you know, I know he has my best interest at heart, but absolutely glad I always want my own way. And what I realized over the course of my career is that what I really love to do was to help start up founders. And when they have a moment on stage where they get to shine, and that means it’s much easier for them to raise money, to get customers, to hire the right people, like, that’s what I love to see. And I thought to myself, well, this is what I really wanna do. The only way to do that is to start my own business. Because if I wanna do this for the people who I think really deserve to win, and that’s everybody who I’m quite frank about this, who doesn’t pattern match the typical investor sort of patterns. Right? They they don’t look a certain way. They don’t come from a certain background, but they have something really big and brilliant that they wanna create in the world. I absolutely wanna help them. So I’m like, I just gotta start my own business to do that. And so I’m somebody who was pretty risk averse. I had to figure out exactly what this was gonna look like, how I was gonna do it. I had a had a a former colleague, a dear friend, who really encouraged me to pursue it. And, two and a half years ago, jumped out on my own, and I’ve been really lucky to work with people I’ve worked with in the past, to help them, like I said, tell their story so they get what they want. Right? And that’s absolutely the goal is to see founders win. And in my own way, ultimately, to change the tech landscape so that it doesn’t matter what you look like or where you come from. Because great founders can look like anyone. They can come from anywhere. And to foster these ecosystems in different parts of the US, in different parts of the world. I love to see people building and changing things, you know, contributing to their own economies, their communities, like, absolutely. Like, you don’t have to be in the Bay Area. You don’t have to look a certain way. Like, yes. Those people, they’re in a very successful. I wanna see everyone win. I really wanna see the the landscape change because it’s just gonna be better for humanity. So that’s my ultimate vision is to create a better world through these entrepreneurs who are willing to do the hardest kind of business in the world. Just totally frank about it. They’re the extreme athletes. Like, we absolutely need to make sure that they can be successful if they have something that’s gonna change the world for us.

Nitin Bajaj

And that is so true. And and I think, you know, for someone who is good at what they want and what they need to get to, They need the resources, which in many cases comes through only if they’re able to tell their story, share their vision at the right place, at the right time with the right people. And from my own experience as an investor, as someone who’s been in this ecosystem for many years, is when it’s the the pinnacle moment for them to shine, they collapse under that pressure. And it’s the you call it lack of preparation, lack of right kind of mentoring, right kind of guidance, having not not having the right kind of team, if you will, that can help them be there and be prepared can be can be devastating to not just their dreams, but for us as a community because we don’t get to see the fruits of their labor because it didn’t get funded, it didn’t get the resources, or what have you.

Kirin Kalia

Exactly. Exactly.

Nitin Bajaj

That’s that’s a that’s a very noble cause and a noble journey that you’re on. And and you have to, you know, you probably have more experience with this. Many times these entrepreneurs are strong headed for good reason.

Kirin Kalia

Absolutely.

Nitin Bajaj

And even if they need it, they don’t want the help. So

Kirin Kalia

There’s there’s there’s that. What I found in my experience, and I’ve worked with at least a 1000 entrepreneurs over many years for different, you know, conferences. Sometimes it’s private meetings, whatever it is. Most people, because they want to win, they want, you know, to to get the investment. They wanna win the top prize, whatever it is. They’re willing to listen to feedback because this is gonna give them an edge. Right? And those who are really, really stubborn and it’s a word that I learned from my high school journalism adviser because it’s very to the point, and it’s not profane. It’s they’re turkeys. They’re just turkeys. They’re they’re really just not pleasant to deal with. They’re very stubborn. And I’m like, well, that person’s just a turkey.  You know what? I’ve done what I can for you. Bless you. Send you on your way. You go figure it out. You get up on stage and you suck, that’s on you. I’ve done my best. Right? Like, that’s that’s where I leave it. And and some people have to learn the hard way. I’m Yes. In service of those who don’t wanna learn the hard way, who don’t wanna show up in those really high stakes critical moments and blow their chance. Right? Anything I can do to help prepare you so that you show up as the best version of you with the best story that’s gonna connect with the human, that’s going to say, make that person say, wow. I have to be part of this. Whatever that looks like, that’s what I want for them.

Nitin Bajaj

That’s awesome. Now makes me wanna think, aside from these turkeys, what’s the one big challenge you face?

Kirin Kalia

It’s interesting. I think that what I have faced is partly internal. Just being totally honest and and vulnerable on that is that entrepreneurship has pushed me in ways that I never expected. I have always been a very ambitious person. I’ve always had very high standards. And then when you look at yourself in the mirror every morning, and you’re like, this is on me. I need to make this work. I need to figure out where the right people are. I need to make sure that they know who I am because I want to help. That has been the hardest part of this journey so far, and it’s continues to evolve, and I’m continuing to work on that. And I think that’s one of my big takeaways is that you should absolutely not any entrepreneur should not go on the journey alone. That is one of the things that I’m very blessed to have learned early on, and I have relied on people, my peers, who are other entrepreneurs to support me. I absolutely encourage anybody to find their group because it’s just family and friends love you, but they’re not gonna understand what it’s like to be an entrepreneur. They might tell you to quit because they see that it’s hard. Right? They don’t want you to suffer, but it’s absolutely important to find people who can support you. So there’s that side of those. So that is one challenge. And the second one, I think for me has been trying to find the entrepreneurs who are at the right stage for the kind of help that I can offer. So somebody who’s really early stage needs a lot of help. And what I decided is that the best way to help people at that level is to go through accelerator programs, and I love to be a mentor. And literally, like, meeting an entrepreneur and helping them think through some of those things at that early stage is really exciting to watch because the growth happens so fast. So there’s that way to help the really early stage folks and the folks who’ve got more of a product built, who are ready to take it to the next level, that’s where I can be of service in a in a more professional sense. Right? But I I wanna help everyone along along that journey. And wherever you’re at, it’s like martial arts. You might be a black belt, but there’s always a level to go up. So, yes, you might have raised a seed round. Guess what? You’re raising a series a round now.

Nitin Bajaj

Mhmm.

Kirin Kalia

If you don’t show up at that level, you’re not gonna get the funding. Yes. You also have to have all the data behind you. But if you don’t show up, that’s not gonna happen. Right? And then there’s the next level and the next level and the next level. And some people can get a pass to some extent, again, depending on what they look like and where they’re from, but not everyone’s gonna get that. It’s all the more reason to show up. I mean, look. Years ago, Mark Zuckerberg, when he went on his road show to Wall Street, he showed up wearing a hoodie. Like, I don’t think most people can get away with that probably then or even now. Right? You know, he didn’t show up in a in a classic CEO, and maybe that fit a certain, you know, image or something like that. And I I want people to be authentically who they are and also be at the level that’s expected for somebody who’s building that kind of business.

Nitin Bajaj

So true. And to bring home that point, you know, even if somebody did around or 2 or 5, the macroeconomic situation may have changed like it has now. Yeah. And even with those credentials, even looking the way you look and having the business you have, you may still not get funding because people don’t wanna fund things now.

Kirin Kalia

Right.

Nitin Bajaj

So you’re right. It it doesn’t matter if if you may have done this before. This is a different round, a different race, a different market. Investor sentiment has changed, and you need to show up and show up in in your best version. And if you have access to tools, mentors, guides that can improve your chance, just even a few percent Yeah. Why would you not?

Kirin Kalia

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I recently worked with a founder who had a really important meeting coming up and said, can you help me? I said, yes. Let’s do this. And, you know, it’s so hard because there’s not a lot of time, but that’s actually when founders do their best work. And they’re the people who can make anything happen, which is one of the things I love about them. They’re just like, alright. Let’s do this. And, again, being open to the feedback, because when I give feedback, it is coming from a place of love. I don’t do this replace of ego. I see where you are and where you can get to, and I’m gonna give you that direct actionable feedback to get you there. It’s up to you to do the work to make it happen. Right? And then I can continue to guide you. It is absolutely important that it be a collaboration to get you there. And I might not be right. I will say things like, try this. Does this work? Does this feel right for you? If you tell the story in this way. Right? I actually had a conversation like that just this morning with the company I’m mentoring in Techstars LA, and they’re really struggling to figure out what that hook should be. They’re getting drilled. They’ve absolutely gotta nail that hook. It’s a 3 minute pitch. Right? And I was like, I can already see it. Like, I feel like Michael Jordan with, like, you know, seeing a basketball court. It’s like, I see where this could go. I’m like, here’s a path for you. Try it. Does it work? Great. Refine. Keep just like your product. You’re gonna keep iterating on it, and the story is going to evolve as your business evolves. Right? That’s just part of it. Don’t get too attached to stuff because it doesn’t work necessarily, 6 months from now. Also, because you’ve learned other things. Right? So it’s it’s really exciting for me to to see people do that level of growth very quickly and want to continue to grow and thrive and show up as the best versions of themselves. And if they need that little bit of extra cheerleading, that’s also something I’m happy to do because I I I wanna see what

Nitin Bajaj

Yeah. And and you’re part of the team now.

Kirin Kalia

It’s Yeah.

Nitin Bajaj

Invested in their success, and that energy can be amazing. Yeah. Now talking about the excitement, the growth, I want you to share with us the one most exciting opportunity you’re looking at.

Kirin Kalia

That’s interesting. I have figured out that I can help people on a project kind of basis. Right? So something that’s really defined. And there’s also for those who are really ready to level up the skills. Like, it’s not just for this very finite thing at this particular moment. Right? There might be something that I absolutely have an urgent need for. Those who want to become the sort of communications ninja for every situation, right, and creating a space for that kind of learning that’s also going to be very outcome driven. Right? You probably still have a larger goal ahead of you, but that’s what I’m really excited to create and to work with the founders who are ready to do that, who, for whatever reason, maybe they didn’t come from a marketing background. They are you know, they’re engineers. They’re scientists. They’re people who have a really hard time getting outside of their world because that’s one of the things I really love to do is, like, help you step out of this because nobody cares about all those details, especially at the beginning. Oh my goodness. Please don’t bore me. I’m going to find a way to run from this. Right? I will find a bathroom. I will find a drink. I’ll find somebody else to talk to. Hey. We’ve all seen it. So people who are in that situation who are like, you know what? This founders are very often self aware. They know what where their where their strengths are, where their weaknesses are. And the ones who are ready to take that on, I will absolutely be the guide and get you to where you need to be so you can show up in every situation in any room ready to talk about things in a way to that person who’s in front of you so that they are actually interested and and likely to respond. So you get the next meeting. You get the next whatever.

Nitin Bajaj

That’s amazing. And it’s great to have that clarity. And it’s, I think, also equally important for the founders or the the the c team that, hey. We have someone who can help us take care of all of this. So we don’t have to worry about it. We can focus on getting the product, the product market fit, the customers talking to them, doing all of those things. But our pitch, our narrative, our customer communication

Kirin Kalia

Yeah.

Nitin Bajaj

You can come in and and really be the champion for them Yeah. On all of those aspects. Now as we look at, you know, what you can help, your customers with the start up founders Nitin in their different phases, I would love to pause and look in the rear view mirror on your journey as a journalist, as an individual, as a new on relatively new entrepreneur.

Kirin Kalia

Relatively new.

Nitin Bajaj

And and ask you to share 2 moments with us. 1, where things did not work out as you had expected, and there was failure, there were lessons. And another instance where things worked out better than you had expected and became a success beyond what you had imagined.

Kirin Kalia

Those are good questions, and I like to be the one who asks them sometimes rather than answer them. It comes from my my background. But, I think that for me, the, the the thing that was hard certainly at the at the beginning, was thinking that if I had essentially a road map. Right? If somebody gave me the how and I’m somebody who really likes to know how it’s going to happen. Right? And this is something I’ve really learned about myself, and I’m working on it because it’s not always it isn’t always knowable as an entrepreneur. Right? You’re not always gonna know the how. It’s always gonna be clear what the path looks like. And I thought if I had a really clear how, I would be on my way. And I did a program where I learned how to build a certain type of marketing funnel, and I got a lot of support. And I put a lot of time and effort, and it was an incredible experience. And I realized that it didn’t work the way I wanted it to because one thing was that I didn’t feel completely like it was authentic to me, what I was doing. Like, I was like, there’s something that isn’t quite right here, but I I I kind of didn’t listen to it. And I think that was one of my big learnings is that if it doesn’t feel right, like, it’s not the right thing, it’s probably not gonna work. Or if it does work, it’s not gonna be sustainable. And so it’s really important to listen to what’s going on in here. And I encourage every entrepreneur to speak from this place when they’re speaking to people. And at the same time, like, if you’re building a business, but you don’t really believe in what you’re building, it’s gonna be tough. Like, sure, there’s an market opportunity or, know, you can make a lot of money with it or something, but something is always gonna be missing. And that is that is something that I realized. So that was really hard for me. I I know I had this this moment of, like, okay. How do I really wanna do it? And then the process of the last couple of years really figured out what lights me up and really what I know I can do to help people. And I’ve had to learn that I actually do this is one of those weird things. It’s like people are like, oh, yeah, Kirin. You’re so great. I’m like, but do I actually provide enough value? I’m having these moments. I’m like, wait. No. I I I am because things that seem so easy or obvious to me are not easy or obvious to other people. That that’s one of the things that you realize about yourself in whatever capacity you have your your your zone of genius or whatever. Right? Like, some people can just see it with a pot. Some people can just see it with the code. Some people can just see it with with the design. Like, I I respect everyone’s ability to do that and provide value in a way that is very hard for others to understand. So I think that was the big learning. And in terms of the thing that’s gone better than I expected, I think that that is still something that’s coming, to be quite honest. I I really I started a project last summer, and I knew that I was going to be working some really crazy hours. And what went better than expected was being able to connect with amazing founders in the process who just absolutely showed me what’s possible in the world and just made me feel so much more optimistic about the future. It’s a program that Visa runs for female founders called She’s Next, and they did a series of competitions in the Middle East. I am in California, and that meant somewhere between 10 to 12 hour time differences with everyone. And I was coaching these founders at 6 o’clock in the morning, most of whom English is their second at least their second language. Right? They’re native Arabic speakers. And these women just blew me away on every level. And the kinds of things that they’re building and the pressures that they are facing and the responsibilities that they juggle. And I just was like, these are not stories you hear in the west. These women absolutely deserve to be on a stage, to have their stories better known. Some of them are actually, you know, building more, you know, startup y kind of things, but also consultancies. Like, these women who found each other in a program in the UK and are building a sustainable, like, green building consultancy in Kuwait, And they have the Kuwait airport as one of their customers. I will tell you that did not happen by accident. Right? And I was like, these women are hat ass. Like, that is just the kind of thing that I love to be part of. So so the bigger thing I think is still coming, but so far, that was just, like, absolutely worth getting at 6 o’clock in the morning. I will do that every day, all day.

Nitin Bajaj

The energy you get from those interactions. Right? It’s you forget these small inconveniences, and I’ll call it small because, you know, it’s that’s what it seems to me. But I live off of that energy. Yeah. When you see other people that are already at a place and have all of this enthusiasm, passion to do something and be it’s not about being successful, it’s about working on this thing and and winning, playing to win And you’re able to contribute and and take them up a notch. Right?

Kirin Kalia

A little bit.

Nitin Bajaj

It’s it’s just that energy is so amazing. So I’m glad you get to experience those. And and you said something about this earlier about, you know, being able to see that growth in and that’s so quick because these people are ready. They’re they’re ready to hit the road, and you can just give them the right kind of guidance and nudge them in in the right direction.

Kirin Kalia

Yes. Yes. It’s it’s so it’s so wonderful to see when it clicks. Right? And founders are generally very smart people. Yes. And so they get it really fast. Sometimes and look. I have learned this also. Repetition helps. So so Mhmm. I might tell you over and over again one thing, and then maybe on the 5th or the 6th or the 7th time, it finally lands, and you’re like, oh, now I get what she’s talking about. Right? Like yes.

Nitin Bajaj

And it’s amazing when the light bulb goes off. Right?

Kirin Kalia

Yes. Yes. It’s it is. And and I also had this happened just a few weeks ago. I was doing the full day of meetings with the new Techstars, cohort. And, you know, every 20 minutes is a, you know, a new new person. And this company, really, really smart what they’re doing, but had a really, really ugly deck. I mean, like, oh my goodness. Was it bad? And I was like, you can’t go out with that. Don’t don’t do that to yourself. Don’t do that to the person who you’re meeting with or you’re gonna be in some kind of competition. Don’t do that. Said, here’s how you can change it. And literally Nitin an hour, the founder came back to me and he said, here’s the new version.

Nitin Bajaj

Nice.

Kirin Kalia

Based on 1:20 minute meeting meeting me for the first time, I was like, that is impressive. Like, that is something I love. Like, you got it. You took action. That is the kind of person that you would also, as an investor, wanna invest in. Right? That’s somebody who gets it.

Nitin Bajaj

And I don’t know about you. I’m I’m a selfish person, and I admit that openly. The joy I would get from making that change, I feel not just rested, but I feel like, oh, I won. The person got it and they were able to present something that looks much better or made a whole lot more sense. There is a lot of gratification that I get from that. So, again, that I I attribute that to my selfishness because I don’t see that as, oh, that person is winning. I see, oh, yes. I did something cool.

Kirin Kalia

I I I saw that. I saw that thing, and I said that would work and it did.

Nitin Bajaj

It is.

Kirin Kalia

It is it is it is nice that little bit.

Nitin Bajaj

Right.

Kirin Kalia

And yet at the same time because I remember the moment that it happened. It was it was, over a decade ago now, and the company that won this event. Right? They were all launching on a stage, and there was tons of people in the room. And this this founder gets called up as the as the overall winner and just the energy and the joy in the room. I literally like, I hadn’t slept in days. Like, I was just ready to collapse, but I felt like I was high. Like, that was the best feeling ever. And to be able to see that founder shine and to give him a hug afterwards, I literally just remember, like, floating through the rest of the afternoon or whatever, and then I collapsed later. But it was so made. I’m like, I’m still chasing that. That was amazing.

Nitin Bajaj

Yes. And that’s amazing. That’s an amazing feeling to have.

Now I’d love for you to share. Other than getting high off of these amazing interactions and and working with these, really smart founders, what do you do to de stress, to just kick back and reset?

Kirin Kalia

That is a very good question. I think everybody needs to have that, and I, at one point, believed that founders just had to go go go all the time. Right? And that’s how we’re wired or that’s what you’re supposed to do. And I was always amazed when somebody would tell me that they went for a run or they, like, you know, had a day out with their family or something. I was like, wait. What? You do that? Like, this was this was a while ago. I I’ll admit that. For me, what’s absolutely critical is I walk every day, and I’m not an athlete. Like, look. Like, that was not the genes I was gifted with by any means, but being active is really important to me and always has been. Like, I need to walk to think, to let go of things, to be present, to notice things in in the environment around me. And so I was only doing one walk per day up until about a year ago, and then it was an afternoon walk. And then I realized I was like, no. No. No. I can’t wait that late in the day to get outside. Especially when you work from home, go out in the morning, and seeing the world as everybody’s rushing off to work, to school, because I live very close to a really large public high school. And I see all these kids kind of, like, looking down, hanging their heads. I part of my own little challenge is to be, like, can I get them to, like, look up to pay attention to just just just just with my own energy walking by them sometimes? Right? Hello. There’s a world out here. And so the daily walk is absolutely nonnegotiable for me. I feel it if I haven’t done it. One that I learned a little bit later, and I’ve I’ve sometimes check the box, although I shouldn’t, is to just to be grateful and to to write that down. I’m not where I wanna be. I don’t have this or that yet. I know that those things I’m totally capable of achieving, but right now, like, this, I’m grateful for this. This bed that I have, which needs to be replaced. My, like, it’s an old bed, but it’s still comfortable, and it’s mine. And I’m so grateful. And to be able to, you know, literally, huddle hug hug my husband and and cuddle up with him at night. Like, it’s one of those things. Not everyone has that, for whatever reason. And I’m really, really blessed to have so many people and things in my life, and the rest of the stuff is coming.

Nitin Bajaj

Yes. And that’s that’s a really good perspective to have. Right? Look at the positives. Look at what we already have Yeah. And not not put what we don’t have in a negative way, but just the things that we really need and we strive for to look at those as goals that we aspire for and we work for. So that’s amazing.

Kirin Kalia

Yeah. And to not this has been the harder one is to not suffer along the way. Yes. That is that is absolutely key because if you are only gonna be happy at the endpoint, you’ve missed so much along the way. Right? Like and and I I know entrepreneurship is the high highs and the low lows.

Nitin Bajaj

Mhmm.

Kirin Kalia

Right? That’s inevitable, but it’s worth it.

Nitin Bajaj

It certainly is. And that’s a good segue into my favorite part of the show, which we call the one line life lessons. So, Kieran, would love for you to share your life lessons with us.

Kirin Kalia

Okay. One of them, and this is so true, is literally to always stop and smell the roses. I am literally one of those people who will stop and smell the roses. And luckily in Southern California, there are roses pretty much year round, but I will take whatever flower is in bloom that has some kind of scent to offer and just enjoy it. It’s flowers don’t last. Right? So you have to enjoy them while they’re there. And I will walk past the same rose bush every morning, and I’ll see that there’s a bud coming. And I will watch the whole flower over the course of a week come and go. Right? And then, hopefully, there’s another one, and I just stop and smell. It’s being present. It’s enjoying nature. It’s enjoying the world around you. So whatever that version is for you, just literally stop and enjoy it. And then my second one, and that’s also really important, and that’s the one that’s come later, is growth happens in the discomfort.

Nitin Bajaj

Like,

Kirin Kalia

just, oh, anybody who just wants to be in their comfort zone all the time is not gonna grow. And so find that discomfort. I had a friend last year who literally I didn’t know it at the time, helped me build the muscle of going to different events and showing places where I knew nobody. And I am not that kind of extrovert. Right? And now after I’ve done it so many times, like, no big deal. I’m gonna go to that event. I’m just gonna start talking to people because guess what? I can do that. Right? I learned from that discomfort. Absolutely. And I wouldn’t be where I am now if I hadn’t learned how to do that. I wouldn’t be where I am if I hadn’t gotten uncomfortable in all kinds of situations as an entrepreneur, but also earlier in my life. So I see that now.

Nitin Bajaj

Any other life lessons you wanna share with us?

Kirin Kalia

Other ones, I think for me, is that the there’s always good to find in people, in situations. You have to look for it. Sometimes it’s really, really hard to do. And if you are able to do that, your life is gonna have a lot less suffering. To at least smile. And there’s there’s even even when something really bad happens, you have to you have to look for the good in it because there is a gift in there somewhere even if it’s not immediately apparent. So that’s that’s the other one. And I believe that even in a world where so much pain and suffering is happening, there’s there’s there’s good to be found, and so so look for it and focus on that.

Nitin Bajaj

So true. Yeah. Kirin, thank you so much for making the time to be with us for sharing your journey, your story, and your life lessons. We really appreciate it. Congratulations on all the successes so far as a relatively new entrepreneur.

Kirin Kalia

Thank you.

Nitin Bajaj

And I know you’re just getting started. There is many more founders that need to be nudged around and, so that they can share their story in a much better way. So would love to bring you back on and talk about many more successes and many more stories.

Kirin Kalia

Yes. Yes, please. And I will always, always, always be happy to share the the successes of other people as well and to bring more people to light who deserve to be in that light. Sure.

Nitin Bajaj

Thank you.