[00:00:00 – 00:00:22] Nitin Bajaj

Hey, everyone. Welcome to season 2 of the industry show. I’m Nitin Bajaj, and this season, we’ll continue to explore the successful journey of Indian entrepreneurs. Joining us today is Manu Shah, cofounder and CEO of MS International. MSI is one of the world’s leading suppliers of natural stone. Manuji, thank you for joining us.

[00:00:22 – 00:00:25] Manu Shah

Really appreciate it. Very welcome, Nitin. Thanks.

[00:00:26 – 00:00:31] Nitin Bajaj

So take us to the beginning. You know? Where were you born? Where did you go to school? 

[00:00:31 – 00:00:40] Manu Shah

I was born in Kutch, Mandavi, in Gujarat state. Yeah. And at age 6, my family moved from Kutch to Mumbai.

[00:01:10 – 00:01:15] Nitin Bajaj

Like, tell us in one sentence what MSI is today. What does it do?

[00:01:15 – 00:01:47] Manu Shah

MSI is a leading supplier of house surface products, such as granite marble, porcelain tiles, and mosaics, we make them affordable and accessible. Affordable by driving the cost down. In accessible, we spread our geographic print everywhere in America.

[00:01:47 – 00:02:03] Nitin Bajaj

Nice. So how did you start? How did you get this idea? I believe you were a trained engineer, and, you know, you were working a job from that to this really unconventional industry back in the seventies. Like, how did it all come together?

[00:02:04 – 00:02:19] Manu Shah

My wife had our son, Raj, who was 6 months old, and she’s saying that I want to be a busy mother, not just a mother. And so we started an export import business.

[00:02:57 – 00:02:59] Nitin Bajaj

Nice. 

[00:03:15 – 00:05:35] Manu Shah

So what was our most proudest moment for me and my wife was the 1st year. Our total sales in 1st year, me, full time working in another job and my wife doing full time motherhood. We found time to do export. Our 1st year sales were $4,600. Wow. And that’s not a very unique part. Unique part is we make $1200 net. Wow. We used to save only $2,000 a year. Now suddenly, we have 60% more savings. I agree. We’re so tickled. Wow. This is great. Now we need to sell that touch. So, we normally don’t look at that. We want to be so big. We just look at how big we can be next year. It’s all incremental, but this incremental allows us never to stop growing. It’s well, there’s our 40, 30 year beginning. And every year has been better than our previous year. We went through a 5 year system. And not a single time we have suffered MS, when we crossed 1st $100,000, it took 9 years to become $1,000,000 in 86. And by 96, we became 10,000,000. 2005, we became 100,000,000. And, this year, 2017, we’ll cross the 10 digit mark, $1,000,000. So that’s between 9-12 years, we grow 10 times.

[00:05:35 – 00:06:10] Nitin Bajaj

That is amazing. And, you know, that’s the most amazing part to me is how did an Indian immigrant, an engineer by profession, take a startup, a home based startup from, you know, in a very unconventional industry. And, you know, it’s not one of those sexy high-tech industries that usually Indians are connected with now. So but then you also use a lot of tech right, in this setup. I know you were walking around the other day, and you have a lot of RFID. You’re talking about drones. So, like, how how do you We

[00:06:37 – 00:08:02] Manu Shah

7000 years at least old  When first pyramids were built, many part of the world, nothing much has changed how the stone was being distributed, how it was sold. Yes. The method has changed how you produce. And but the selling and the way it was, we realized the use of technology can put us at the forefront of everybody else. And we did remarkable use of technology in this law tech business. 1984, when no one had even heard what a fax machine is, we were already using a fax machine. And that allowed us to transfer diagrams and put sketches from our small home in Fort Wayne, Indiana.  But facts to be concerned about India, a deportation, receive the fax back, send the fax to our customers in Vermont or in India, Minnesota, And we were 3 to 5 times faster in hours or days compared to your competitor within America. Oh,

[00:08:02 – 00:08:03] Nitin Bajaj

That’s okay.

[00:08:03 – 00:08:34] Manu Shah

And then 96, we introduced digital cameras. And that was the same thing. Mavica, we must have distributed probably 50 or so digital cameras to our favorite customer and our favorite supplier. They send us the picture of the new store, new queries, and through the Internet, we’ll send it to other people. And they all will be able to see so fast. So this time was compressed like any

[00:08:34 – 00:08:44] Nitin Bajaj

So you invested in your vendors so that you can kind of partner up with them and give them an incentive so that they can return these images faster to you through your post to market. Yeah.

[00:08:44 – 00:08:47] Manu Shah

Our supply chain is our true partner.

[00:08:48 – 00:08:50] Nitin Bajaj

Nice. And even this the,

[00:09:06 – 00:10:17] Manu Shah

stands for moving at the speed of information. So we try to say that, hey, no one has a right to hold up the information. Right. Information must keep moving from the day the supplier receives the purchase order to how we will fulfill it to when it is put into the ship to import department vendors. Everybody has a need to know basic knowledge  When it comes to the customs, when it comes to our warehouse. The pictures have been uploaded for a little 5 weeks on the website. So customers can choose what they’re looking for. The product is not even on American shows yet. Wow. And that’s how we are staying ahead by providing information. Our rate at which we turn our inventory is faster than industry by at least 3 quarter points. Wow. So the industry may be running at 2 times. We are at 2.75 times.

[00:10:17 – 00:10:20] Nitin Bajaj

That’s pretty huge given the size of your operations. Right?

[00:10:20 – 00:10:51] Manu Shah

It’s already a capital incentive business. A lot of inventory, we stopped for about 12,000 truckloads of materials in the USA. And our largest warehouse is not a physical warehouse. Our largest warehouse is the ocean. In the ocean and then you can say, we have 4,004,500 truckloads of the material. It’s constantly moving. It’s constantly moving. Wow.

[00:10:51 – 00:10:56] Nitin Bajaj

How many countries are you sourcing from, and how many countries are you supplying to?

[00:10:56 – 00:11:19] Manu Shah

I think we are sourcing from 36 countries. Wow. And about 70 ports, and it comes to 16, ports in America or the ocean, and then it fits back into the inland ports such as Chicago and Atlanta.

[00:11:20 – 00:11:26] Nitin Bajaj

And so we have this amazing globe back here. Is that kinda representative of the different kinds of stones around?

[00:11:26 – 00:12:03] Manu Shah

Those are all stored from different countries. Yes. It represents those. That is really amazing. Close to 1600 employees, 1400 of them in the USA.

[00:12:04 – 00:12:10] Nitin Bajaj

Wow. That’s huge. And, I mean, I’m sure that doesn’t count the number of indirect jobs that you’re creating in through your vendors

[00:12:10 – 00:13:13] Manu Shah

and through That’s a huge Yeah. That’s huge. We are supporting 120,000 jobs worldwide. Wow. The land jobs, not indirect. These other people, if something happens to him as I today, and their rivers and their jungles. That’s where they want to stay. But there are no jobs, so they move to the big city and they become part of Islam. Yeah. We are preventing it. Of those 120,000 jobs, 60,000 or more are in rural area of the world. That’s huge.

[00:13:14 – 00:13:26] Nitin Bajaj

Yeah. And, you know, that’s the true spin of entrepreneurship. Right? Entrepreneurs thinking not just about making money, but also about creating opportunities and jobs and livelihoods and making the world

[00:13:26 – 00:14:28] Manu Shah

a better place. Making money probably never occurred to me or my wife as for the second, third, or fourth priority. Making in the lives of the changing the life of the people.  Everywhere MS is a very important part to us. Okay? Between this kind of thing from such an absolute speed at which we do  Using a high-tech into the low tech area. We will make sure that it goes to everybody. Everyone is supposed to act on the information as fast as they can.

[00:14:29 – 00:14:50] Nitin Bajaj

Great. And, you know, there’s a lot of talk around. You know, people say if you want to get into a business or start something of your own, you should really be passionate about it. Right? What I mean, this is a very unconventional industry. Right? So, like, what about stones or rocks Made you passionate or motivated about it?

[00:14:50 – 00:17:05] Manu Shah

Well, believe it or not, maybe where I grew up for the 1st 6 years, stone wear my toys. There were no toys. I come from a grown media class. There were no stone. If you look at the history of stone and human  The homo sapien Yeah. It’s remarkable. When 8000000, 6000000 years ago, humans started walking straight. Suddenly, they realized we have 2 hands. What can you do with it? So they picked up the store to protect themselves and get the food by killing birds or killing roosters and so on. Okay? Chickens. That changed the way they were able to protect. They were having food. They started living in the caves. They started control. Everything is done through the Lord’s love story. Okay?  And we all like how the natural stone has changed.  And 50,000 years ago, they had a controlled fire. Right. We started living in the cave  Family because now we have everything. Right. You know, a place to stay, but the caves were made about stone. Stone. Yeah. So all this is really It’s the human hand that’s figured out what to do with the stone. And that has changed them. And their words.  Okay. That’s really amazing. So,

[00:17:33 – 00:17:40] Nitin Bajaj

there were no Asians allowed in the country till as late as, like, in the sixties, what was the landscape?

[00:17:41 – 00:19:06] Manu Shah

Well, during 67, there’s lot of India like me who came there were 2 to the landscape in here was a landscape in India. You have to remember there were no jobs in India. The best job from top notch engineering school I can get was a bikini in effect in a plot mill. Alright? And there was trying to be something. America was the other way. America was at war with Vietnam. They were on the rise to put the man on the moon.  Right. And their defense spending risk. So they badly needed engineers. Right. They were happy. When we graduated, they were happy to give us a green flag. Please stay here. Please help us with these 2 because all the best and brightest were already those who are American citizens. Either they’re working in defense or they were working with NASA. Right. Okay? So the rest of the industry was suffering without maintenance. Okay? And so they were very happy to take us. And we’re really kind of bringing, please stay here. Well, and even then you kind

[00:19:06 – 00:19:09] Nitin Bajaj

of ventured out and and started

[00:19:09 – 00:20:28] Manu Shah

Why did I work for 7 years? We ventured out. Okay? That was an important part of learning about America.  Reality is America is a great country. In nearly everything in business, we have done it. We have learned from America, the Midwest, the New England state that taught me a very, very big, nice, good lesson of business. That laid the foundation for you to kinda We just kept experimenting between me and my wife and and Try I’m I’m very ambitious and kids, Rike kept telling me, don’t close that. Okay? And that’s how it was. Okay? So we kept doing many things with my ambition and her time to control my ambitions, but stay within focus on what we should be doing, nothing else.

[00:20:28 – 00:20:45] Nitin Bajaj

Nice. So talking about mentors, you know, one of my mentors said, a successful entrepreneur has to be really skilled in 3 different skills. Be able to sell and then be able to deliver on that promise that that you sold to the person, and then be able to

[00:20:45 – 00:20:47] Manu Shah

collect payments and, you know, get

[00:20:47 – 00:20:53] Nitin Bajaj

your money out. So which one of these were you good with as you started up, and then which ones did

[00:21:09 – 00:21:57] Manu Shah

So come to sell. We continuously look at it from demand versus supply. Okay? And we said we got to keep creating demand. If your demand keeps increasing, you are in good shape. Right. If demand decreases and supply increases, we are in bad shape. That’s the first principle of marketing. Right. Don’t try to have increasing supply and not enough demand. So we kept working on the demand part. Alright, once I realized that it became a little easier for me. It’s not easy for me to sell, but I’m not a salesman. Right. I’m more logistic and strategic.

[00:21:58 – 00:22:21] Nitin Bajaj

Yeah. It’s amazing how you know, it’s very simple, but it’s so important to have the basics in place. Right? Like, just like cash flow. Yeah. Nice. So when at what juncture did you kind of sense that, you know, things were falling into place and, you know, this was taking off? Like, when did you decide to completely switch out of your job and go do this for time?

[00:22:22 – 00:23:19] Manu Shah

So we were invited to supply black granite, in 1981 to supply through the Vienna War Memorial. So I was still nervous. It was a very politically  Risky move because America, a good part of America, did more than a black color granite or coming from foreign countries, which supported Vietnam. India had supported. So there was enough opposing the body. So I kept my jaw until the last panel was erected and the Vietnam War Memorial. The next week after that, I turned in my resignation, and we started selling more monuments and then eventually more black granite, dull slabs, and then all other colors. It’s

[00:23:19 – 00:23:26] Nitin Bajaj

pretty amazing. And and for an Indian I mean, it was it was still an American company, but like

[00:23:26 – 00:23:27] Manu Shah

you said, you know, kinda

[00:23:27 – 00:23:36] Nitin Bajaj

getting over that challenge of getting the stone from India and back to a war memorial in the US. That’s a pretty big step.

[00:23:37 – 00:24:04] Manu Shah

Yeah. This challenge is all you know, again, America is great. And everything was available, not on Google at that time. Right? But in life I am ready. And you learn from and the people were helpful.  You know, our banking, Fort Wayne, Indiana, our accountant, our neighbors all were helping us to grow. And that was very good for us. Nice.

[00:24:04 – 00:24:16] Nitin Bajaj

So there weren’t there weren’t any challenges, stereotypes of you know, sometimes people kind of face that even now. You know, even 40, 50 years later, we still have those.

[00:24:16 – 00:24:33] Manu Shah

No. There was one stereotype which bothered me a lot, and it was that it took us a while to get over it. Everyone wore that Italian marble. Okay? In their home. Yeah. That name had some glamoury. Italian.

[00:24:33 – 00:24:34] Nitin Bajaj

It was a brand. Except

[00:24:35 – 00:25:10] Manu Shah

We were bringing material from India, China, Brazil. We were not making much from Italy. Right. Okay. So it was challenging.  And my story was, everybody, when the stone was made over a 100000000 years ago, there were no countries. Right? So it does not matter, man. It becomes strong. It’s how Mother Nature made it. And when that happened, it became much clearer to people that let’s not say I want Italian marble. I want good marble. I want good granite. I want a good travertine. And no matter where it comes

[00:25:10 – 00:25:25] Nitin Bajaj

from. Right. Yeah. Let’s talk about the quality and the color and and and the material that you like. Yeah. Not as much as from where it comes. Yes. So how has you know, talking about culture and color, how has your Indian ethnicity and upbringing

[00:25:41 – 00:27:27] Manu Shah

Okay? My religion also taught me to stay focused.  Okay? So those two things kind of helped me. They don’t deviate from it. All business processes and what I’m doing business, I’ve done everything in America. All my experimenting with my wife and last 13 years with our 2 sons who are co president of the company. In India, we respect elders. Right? I decided why they don’t respect everybody. Okay? Everybody, whether he speaks English or not, whether he’s at Janitor or he’s a UPS service guy.  I respect everybody. Right. And we start respecting all of these people. That’s the reward is far more than people think. They also respect you. They listen to you. Almost everything as an entrepreneur, one thing is very clear to me. 25 to 30% of your time, Keep your ears open.  Ask questions and listen to them. Instead of lecturing them, listen to them. And you will get that you don’t have to listen to every idea. You don’t have to observe every idea But the idea which is practical for you to do it, you use it. That’s all.

[00:27:27 – 00:27:39] Nitin Bajaj

That’s huge. So kind of going from, you know, being MSI specific to what are you most excited about in your life at this moment?

[00:27:39 – 00:29:24] Manu Shah

At this moment in life, I’m more keen on philanthropy. K. I am, like, now roughly 45% I’m spending time on philanthropy and 55% my time I’m spending in MSI. I’m still putting in 65 hours a week, but let’s see why. And I enjoy very much how hundreds of thousands of people through Akshay Patra  The little 2 kitchens were built in, 100 up to 122,000 people begin a good nutritious meal every day.  That’s fantastic. Yeah. The same thing, the initiative we have taken to.  It’s way beyond what you can imagine. Try to think of it that you have an education without school.  A classroom without a teacher. Yeah. That’s what Pratham is trying to do in the villages where 20 to 30,000,000 people have neither school, no classroom, and no teacher. Yeah. So what are they going to learn? They’re going to learn from tablets in this. We are getting between 5 to 6000 tablets through the Pratham, and they are going to expand that to where Google has agreed to put another 3 times the money we are putting in.  So our 2,000,000 will become 6,000,000. Nice. That’s fantastic. And all of this will change the way we think of education. Now that’s huge.

[00:29:24 – 00:29:49] Nitin Bajaj

And, you know, obviously, some of your family trusts that you set up, you’re by far one of the largest philanthropists that I know in this part of the world. So, you know, you mentioned Akshay Pathway. You also helped me kick start the kitchen in Buj, which is breaking ground as we speak, and that’s going to feed, like, 50, 70,000 kids every year.

[00:29:49 – 00:29:54] Manu Shah

It would be over 100,000 kids every year. Yeah. Everyday of every day.

[00:29:54 – 00:30:01] Nitin Bajaj

Every day of the school year. Yeah. And for a lot of those kids, as we know, this is the only

[00:30:01 – 00:30:21] Manu Shah

Everybody wants to experiment. Try to have a hungry kid and see how much he wants to learn. Every mother knows without food, they don’t learn much. Right. So they’re feeding. We should apply the same to the kids who are not getting good food. Right. And that’s what Akshay Pathway is doing.

[00:30:21 – 00:30:39] Nitin Bajaj

Right. So do you think you know, talking about philanthropy? Do you think we as Indians do enough? Are we giving enough? You know, like, there’s a lot of talk about Americans and, you know, they set up, like, Mark Zuckerberg set up an organization and said, I’m gonna give 99% of my wealth away.

[00:30:55 – 00:31:10] Manu Shah

Most of them are doing it. And I’m not here to lecture what they do. There comes a time in life, they decide when they’re going to do it. Right. You know, I cannot say that at age 45, I was as generous as I’m today. Right. Okay?

[00:31:10 – 00:31:12] Nitin Bajaj

It’s a personal decision. It’s

[00:31:12 – 00:31:33] Manu Shah

probably you are spending more time today on philanthropy than I was at your age. So it’s it’s it’s everybody will realize when is the right time to give when it’s vision. Right? I mean, that is up to them to decide when is the right time to spend time, energy, money, and effort.

[00:31:36 – 00:32:02] Nitin Bajaj

Well, I guess, you know, on that high note, I would like to thank you for taking time to do this. Oh, there are some questions from the audience, so let’s take those things. So the question is for an aspiring Indian entrepreneur today, is the US better or Canada? You have a business in Canada too. So do you think they should come here

[00:32:03 – 00:32:44] Manu Shah

or should they go to Canada? Well, a side standing what has happened recently in the American election.  There is no other country greater in the world who likes it. Just like to think of me, if I go to Japan, Germany, you are staying in India.  Would I be as successful? No way. There is no doubt America is the right country for entrepreneurship. Canada is probably second. And maybe even Australia may come there. Pardon? America, there is no doubt. This is it. That’s how it is grown. That’s how it is.

[00:32:45 – 00:32:52] Nitin Bajaj

Okay. Alright. Well, there’s a demand to do rapid fire. A couple of questions.

[00:32:52 – 00:33:13] Manu Shah

Okay. Let me try. I’m not the fastest. I don’t like that. Let me tell you. I don’t like this elevator speech of entrepreneurs to design in 30 seconds whether their idea is worth or not. It even took me 5 years to perfect our ideas. Alright. Then I’ll wrap it

[00:33:13 – 00:33:16] Nitin Bajaj

by it, and then you can answer that. Exactly. What’s your favorite city?

[00:33:33 – 00:33:35] Manu Shah

The best place you can ever think of? Yes.

[00:33:36 – 00:33:39] Nitin Bajaj

What’s the one thing that you own that you wish you did?

[00:33:40 – 00:33:55] Manu Shah

One thing I own, I wish I did not. Yeah. Probably ego. Okay. I don’t want my ego. I want to get rid of it while I do this. That’s something I own. I don’t want it.

[00:33:55 – 00:34:03] Nitin Bajaj

To be honest, you’re one of the most humble persons I know, so I don’t think you had any. So it’s

[00:34:03 – 00:34:16] Manu Shah

just yeah. Yeah. When you start with the size I am, sometimes ego gets to you and then you regret that that’s not what made you where you are.

[00:34:16 – 00:34:24] Nitin Bajaj

That’s what I wasn’t expecting in rapid fire, but I guess that comes from this one. What’s your favorite song?

[00:34:43 – 00:34:55] Manu Shah

Yeah. So that’s what it is. It’s personal and it’s Yes. Very learned to me and my wife. We expect too much time together. Yeah. And they’re seeing our story for us.

[00:34:55 – 00:34:56] Nitin Bajaj

How long have you been there?

[00:34:56 – 00:35:00] Manu Shah

Like, over This is about 46 years. Wow.

[00:35:01 – 00:35:37] Nitin Bajaj

Going to be pretty soon. Yes. Okay. Well, thank you once again. Alright. And, and I would like to take a quick moment to thank our sponsors, Seacastle Insurance. Please look them up, seacastle.co, for your insurance needs, for your business insurance needs, and bombaymade.com if you’re looking for any handmade gift items for corporate or personal giving. And, yeah, join us for our next show. We’ll announce that pretty soon on our web page, the industry show, facebook.com/industryshow. We’ll see you guys soon. Thanks a lot.