Nitin Bajaj

Welcome to the industry show. I’m your host, Nitin Bajaj. And joining me today is Pankaj Verma. Pankaj, welcome on the show.

Pankaj Verma

Well, thank you, Nitin. It’s my pleasure, and thank you for inviting me.

Nitin Bajaj

Pleasure is all ours. So let’s start with a big question. Who is Pankaj?

Pankaj Verma

Well so I will give you 2 definitions. There’s a physical and a more recent spiritual definition. Mhmm. So I was born in, in India, brought up in a lower middle class family. Most of my education, I did it on scholarships and loans. And, and and that was interesting because I think it taught me the value of 2 things. 1 was education, and the second was money. I learned very early in my life, you know, what what can be enabled through education. And as I started I finished my education, started working, and I was grappling with this one question, which is, hey. After doing all of this, and I did pretty well in my studies, should I be kind of taking a job from the market, or should I be creating more jobs in the market? And that’s kind of the the conversation I was having in my mind. And that’s when, one of my very, very close friends from Anna College made, Sandeep Walia. He actually came and said, hey. Why don’t we start a business? And we had talked about it briefly during our engineering days. And we we started, a company which eventually was called Ignify. We we kind of pivoted in a bunch of different directions before catching that that wave. And to keep a long story short, we built that company. We sold it to Hitachi in December of 2015. And, after that kind of, my life took a slightly different turn. I, I started another consulting business, but in parallel, I was also grappling with a bunch of spiritual, existential questions, so to speak. Some of them were, you know and I was doing pretty well in my life at a solar company. I was financially secure. Things were going great. But at the same time, there were things personal that actually impacted me, And I realized how quickly my perception changed from everything looking great to everything looking not so great. And it had to do with my my mother, and she passed away eventually. She was undergoing, you know, medical situation for for a fairly long and painful period. But it made me realize how our perception can so quickly change our reality. And that is really where kind of my spiritual journey kind of started. And I figured out that this aspect of ourselves is not very well explored by it wasn’t by done by me. It’s not done by many people, and that’s really how I ended up starting OS dot me, which is a spiritual wellness platform, which is the company I’m running today.

Nitin Bajaj

So, you know, you’ve you’ve traveled around. You’ve lived in different countries. You’ve been an entrepreneur across variations of developing and developed countries. And this journey to your inner self and this launch of OS dot me, Very interesting. We obviously didn’t capture all of it, but tell us more about OS dot me. What is the goal? What is the mission? What is the vision? And, you gave us a hint of why do this. So would love to hear more about all of those things.

Pankaj Verma

Sure. So we are building a spiritual wellness platform. And our mission is really to change the way an individual looks at their life. And it’s very interesting because if you think about our life today, we are probably in the best of places as far as physical health is concerned. You know, whether it’s medical or whether it’s food, availability or, you know, all aspects of physical life, we are probably at the best time ever in the history. Mhmm. Yet, our mental health has not quite been keeping pace. In fact, it’s deteriorating as some would say and some research indicates, and the 2 are kind of contradictory. Mhmm. Why would our physical health improve when our mental health is not kind of keeping pace? Mhmm. And and the answer is really to a certain degree lies with with spirituality. And I will give you 2 kind of simple statements to summarize. Mhmm. People want something that they don’t have.

Nitin Bajaj

Right.

Pankaj Verma

And people have something that they don’t want.

Nitin Bajaj

Mhmm.

Pankaj Verma

And I think between this want and have is the entire spiritual equation. Right? So the reason we are seeing some of these challenges is because of these two statements, Because while we have figured out how to physically keep ourselves healthy, I don’t think we have really figured out how do we handle this want and have kind of equation, and how do we, how do we look at life? How do we, you know, how do we look at situations in our lives in a manner that that is healthy for us? And that is really what a spiritual wellness platform is. So our goal is to really change that perception. Mhmm. We want to enable individuals to change that perception. I mean, there are multiple ways of looking at at these things, and how do you look at it in a spiritually healthy manner? And today, there are variety of ways and there are many gurus and spiritual practitioners, and they’re available. What we want to do and in a way our goal is to democratize this process, to make it accessible to everyone, to to, you know, to ensure that you don’t have to, you know, spend a lot of money and, take maybe a couple of weeks off your work to go on a retreat and then maybe learn some of these. Right, which is available today. But I believe the entry barrier is too high for normal population. So that’s, in brief, what OS dot me is, you know, from a mission and goal perspective.

Nitin Bajaj

So this is a recent journey for you. But give us a sense of the size and scale and more importantly, the impact you are hoping to create with this?

Pankaj Verma

Right. So we’ve been around for about a little over 12 months. Mhmm. So we’re still in nascent stage. Right. But in the 12 months, we have built a community of about 30,000 members, out of which about, 5,000 paid members. Our revenue run rate as of now is about 250 k per year. It’s just been a year, so that’s really our

Nitin Bajaj

Pretty impressive numbers.

Pankaj Verma

Well, thank you. Thank you. In terms of impact, though, there are, you know, since we are trying to do things at an individual level, I would probably share some stories. Yeah. So if you have a member who was actually on medication for, depression, and he has been off medication for last 6 months. He has actually, he joined very early, and he shared everything that he was going through, citing what medications he was taking and what these medications were doing to him. And he was not really liking it a whole lot. The the effect of that. He had a family, he had a care and everything. And the community came in as support. They suggested certain things that he could do. But more than anything, I I think it was just the compassion and the companionship with the community that actually got him kind of into a camaraderie. Right? He was able to see that he belongs, and he was able to see that people are understanding, and they’re encouraging him. They’re positive. I think that itself was a fairly significant deal. That’s one. There’s another story where somebody who was, when she was very young, she was sexually abused, and she still had those things in her mind, you know, although she’s an adult now. But just the the fact that she could actually openly talk about those and come to terms with it, it helped her a lot. I mean, she used to have certain behavioral patterns that actually changed too much positive patterns. And I could go on. There are actually numerous stories, like that. But that’s something that keeps me excited. That’s where I see a significant scope for impact.

Nitin Bajaj

That’s really wonderful. And there is a strength in talking to strangers that you know are not looking to judge you. Right?

Pankaj Verma

Right.

Nitin Bajaj

And that that camaraderie that, you talked about is so powerful, especially as you go into an unknown space, which can be very fearful. Right? When you’re exploring your own insight, that that can be a very frightening journey. So kudos and congratulations to you for having that’s those are pretty impressive numbers for, you know, 12 months. Not surprising given you’re involved, with validation nonetheless. Now as you’re building this community and this business, what’s the one big challenge you’re facing?

Pankaj Verma

It’s it’s interesting that you asked that question. I think the big challenge we face is actually religion. Mhmm. Spirituality has always been very integral. I mean, that was the only way we actually Intertwined. Yes. Yeah. It is very intertwined, very difficult to separate the 2. And we are kind of trying to separate the 2 because we are we are saying, hey. We we we don’t so all religions have something great, and we don’t take sides. We are not saying, hey. This one is better or this one is not not good. In fact, we are trying to pick up the common good things and use them for your spiritual empowerment. However, it’s hard because, you know, people in the community do end up talking about their religion. And as they talk about their religion, it it does it has an emotional impact on other members who may or may not belong to same religion. Right? And that is a very difficult, to handle scenario. So that’s kind of a key challenge that we are we are facing, and we’re trying to figure out how to untangle religion from this mix, which is almost impossible. Having said that, we believe there are a lot of good things in religion and religious leaders that we can bring out to the platform.

Nitin Bajaj

Yeah. That’s a it’s a critical and a difficult one. So good luck on on that. It’s it’s going to take a while to intertwine that. It’s been going on for several 1000 years.

Pankaj Verma

Yes. If

Nitin Bajaj

if anyone can take a crack at that, that’s you. So on the flip side of challenges come opportunities, what’s the most exciting one?

Pankaj Verma

So the most exciting opportunity actually, there are 2 of them. One of them is really the marketplace side of it. I mean, thanks to the technology, you know, the way it has happened, we had Internet, then we had communities, and then we have been having marketplaces, you know, and and I think the technology has matured to enable all of this in a fairly cost effective manner. And, providing a marketplace for for spiritual practitioners who really wanna go out there and help people. And today, they they do that in their local, area, you know, wherever they might live, but not all of them have the access to, to to go and and, you know, kind of broaden their reach. And we feel we can provide that through our platform, and we can also become a source of, earnings for for these members, these community members. And that’s a very, very exciting opportunities because I truly personally want to enable that that capability for people to make money out of this skill, this particular life skill. And it’s a win win because there are people who are seeking this, and there are people who can provide this and we can bring them together. That’s a huge opportunity. The second opportunity is really around, things like hospice care or even inpatient care. And I see it as a very interesting model of, if I can use the word demand and supply of empathy and kindness. Yes. And, the reality is, like, in in here in US, for example, if somebody is admitted or somebody’s in hospice care, even though I, as family, want to care for them, the environment does not give me enough time. I probably got a job, I’ve got kids, and I’ve got 10 other things to take care of. Right? Whereas the person who is in the care needs that empathy and time. It can only come from people. It cannot come from a machine. On the other hand, there are places where this can be provided. And if we can connect the 2, we can bring that love and empathy and compassion into the lives of these people who are actually undergoing something in their lives and they need that empathy and care with people who can provide that care and provide that model, I think it’ll be it’ll be, it’ll be really wonderful to ensure that people can actually find some solace through strangers, as you rightly said. So we want to really turn the whole Internet model upside down where so far we have heard about trolling. We have heard about a lot of negativity around what this relationship with strangers can do. But, actually, there are a lot of positives to it as well. If you just turn it upside down, you these strangers can actually become a a fairly a good source of positive energy in your life.

Nitin Bajaj

I’m of the belief that strangers are my future friends. Absolutely. And the other thing is, you know, the and you are an authority on this, but I think as a community, we are getting to a place where other than these lifestyle diseases, loneliness has become the most prevalent disease. And what you are talking about and the win win situation that you’re creating is going to help with that one big disease that’s staring at us, but I think it’s the the elephant in the room.

Pankaj Verma

Right. Right. No. Absolutely. I think I think the so spirituality has so many aspects to it.

Nitin Bajaj

Mhmm.

Pankaj Verma

It is, so I I I’ll give you a simple example. You know, I was expecting a promotion. I go to office. I don’t get a promotion, and somebody else gets that promotion, and I’m upset. Right? I come home and let’s say, you know, there’s a nice dinner that has been prepared and the family is really thinking that I’ll spend time with them, but I’m upset and I don’t pay attention to them. If you think about it, really my perception is so centered around that one promotion incident that I’ve kind of forgotten the rest of the reality that is existing. And it’s it’s very commonplace. It happens you know, talk about road rage. Right? The same thing. You’re going happily. Somebody cuts you.

Nitin Bajaj

Mhmm.

Pankaj Verma

And suddenly, everything goes haywire. Right? And and we live from moment to moment without appreciating everything else that is in front of us.

Nitin Bajaj

So true.

Pankaj Verma

We all are guilty of this mistake. Yes. Right? Only if we can change our perception and appreciate what is in front of us. I think the quality of life in general of ourselves as well as people around us will improve. And that’s, like, very, very basic of spirituality 101 if I if I may call it so.

Nitin Bajaj

Yes. So as we look in the future of what you are creating, I wanna take a moment and look in the rear view mirror. And through your experiences, you know, Ignify, Hitachi, Unify Dot, and now with OS dot me. Would love for you to share 2 moments. 1 that defied your expectations and became success beyond your Nitin. And another example that did not work out to your expectations was a failure and became a lesson.

Pankaj Verma Right. So I think a failure I’ll go with the failure first. And that actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Mhmm. So it was in the very early days of our initial, you know, entrepreneurial journey, and we were not doing very well. We actually started with ecommerce as initial offering, and then, it was 992,000, and then the entire ecommerce meltdown happened, and probably you’re aware of it, you know, that, you know, the whole market was was in shambles. And we were really having a hard time. We had employees and we didn’t have money to pay salaries. I was taking a loan from my brother actually to pay salaries and which was a scary idea because I didn’t know where I was gonna repay that loan from. And, we were thinking of shutting down the business. We’re literally thinking that, hey, maybe we should just go back to a job or something like that. And I, I remember going to, Mumbai. I was in India then, and meeting, Namit Chugh, and that you you already know, and he’s he’s a wonderful, you know, one of the one of the most wonderful human beings I’ve ever met in my life. And I met Navneet, and he came out we met in a coffee shop, and he was actually addressing a group of IIT graduates. So he came from a conference, and, you know, we we sat down, and, we started talking, and we talked about the business, and I, you know, I mentioned this is what we’re thinking. And he said, you know, I just came out of that conference, and that conference has Verma 1000 kids who want to be where you are. And here you are wanting to quit. And that line and I I traveled by I traveled by bus back to Pune, and that line kept ringing in my head all the way I was actually thinking about that one line. Line. And obviously, eventually, we did not shut down the company. We actually pivoted. We moved into software services and the rest is history. But that change in perspective and I realize how powerful it can be. There are 2 ways to look at it, and I was struggling meeting my expenses. And you can imagine, you know, figuring out where the next paycheck is gonna come from for the employees that I had. And, and and all that stress that comes with it that I was not able to see a different perspective. And that is what I think we are trying to do with this with with OS dot me as well. Many times, we don’t see things only if we can see them, and I was fortunate and blessed to have Namnet as a mentor. Not everybody would have one. And then how do we how do we enable that change? How do we enable that change in perspective? And if we can, just like I think I I got an opportunity to rebound and and do much better, I think everybody else can get the same opportunity. And that was a failure, you know, which which kind of turned out to be a blessing. In terms of success, I think we were really proud of the fact how we built our 1st company, and we were, we were old school. We we built our business a traditional way, but I wasn’t proud of the fact that, not a single customer of ours was unhappy, when we sold the business. We had a pretty incredible track record, and all of our team members actually could have worked with us for for many, many years. They they love the company. They love what we’re doing. And that combination and, of course, we were the we were the only stockholders in the company, including a couple of angel investors. But that that synergy that we were able to create with everybody really feeling good, our customers felt really good about giving us business, employees felt really good, it was a wonderful place. I mean, when we walked into office in the morning, I really felt good.

And I think that feeling is fine. Right. Yeah.

Nitin Bajaj

And, of course, I know a few of the people that worked with you, and I can confirm they they were extremely happy. And I know some of them came back when you started Unified Art. So that’s Right. That’s proof and validation right there. So as we talk about lessons and success, let’s segue into my favorite part of the show, the one line life lessons. Would love for you to share a few of your life lessons with us.

Pankaj Verma

 Interesting one. So there are there are a number of them. I think a few ones that really target my heart are one of them is, you know, the best way to predict the future is to create it. Love it. And, yeah, I mean, it’s it’s something that, I don’t recall exactly who said it, but it’s something I firmly believe in. I believe if we want to predict the future, we should be the forefront creating it. Mhmm. Then then there’s something, Mahatma Gandhi said, who was actually one of my, my life, you know, life guides, so to speak, which is our greatest ability as humans is not to change the world, but to change ourselves. Yes. And and, you know, we can’t change the world or change others unless we change ourselves. And and for me, this entire spiritual journey has been a lot about changing myself.

Nitin Bajaj

Mhmm.

Pankaj Verma

And this one, another one I like is is I think is is, is Jeff Bezos who said that. It’s one of the huge mistakes people make is that they try to force an interest on themselves. You don’t choose your passion. Your passion chooses you.

Nitin Bajaj

So true.

Pankaj Verma

Right? And and this is I think this is most mostly for the youngsters. Sometime, we are trying to figure out what is it that we really enjoy, and we’re trying out different things. But the reality is your as you keep trying, your passion will come to you. And and this one, actually, I found from your from your website, which is life gets easier when you laugh at it, and I love laughing is something that I I really enjoy, and I I do fully believe that we should all laugh a little bit more. And I think that’s those are the ones that, those are some of the ones actually that that really resonate with me and I kind of help me on a day to day basis.

Nitin Bajaj

Pankaj, thank you so much for sharing those life lessons and also your journey and story. Congratulations again on your 3rd successful, I wouldn’t call it a startup, 3rd successful launch. And, I know this one will be as successful, if not more, as your previous ones. We wish you all the luck and would love to bring you back on, at a future time and talk about more of these stories, that you are bringing to life. Thank you once again.

Pankaj Verma

Thank you, Naveen. Thank you. And, it was absolute pleasure. And thank you for doing what you do, which is, you know, you you have been an incredible person helping in a variety of ways, which I know through the years. So so thank you for everything you do. Thank you.