[00:00:00 – 00:00:08] Nitin Bajaj

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the industry show. I’m your host, Nitin Bajaj. And joining me today is Zac Clark. Zac, welcome on the show.

[00:00:09 – 00:00:11] Zac Clark

Thanks, Natin. Great to be here.

[00:00:11 – 00:00:14] Nitin Bajaj

Great to have you here. Let’s start with who is Zac?

[00:00:16 – 00:00:54] Zac Clark

Well, thanks, everyone, for taking the time to listen. My name is Zac Clark. I’m the founder and executive director of the HomeMore Project. So we are a 501c3 nonprofit organization serving people experiencing homelessness across California. I’m also a recent graduate. Actually, Yesterday, as of June 13, I finished my master’s of urban and regional planning at ucla. I studied homelessness, housing and economic development during my two years there.

So I like to dibble and dabble in a few different things, but those are the two most noteworthy things right now.

[00:00:55 – 00:01:15] Nitin Bajaj

Well, congratulations again. And, you know, tell us more about the HomeMore project. More importantly, why do this? I mean, you could be doing so many different things. You learned urban planning and studied a bunch of challenges.

You’re aware of a lot of opportunities. Why home? More?

[00:01:15 – 00:03:16] Zac Clark

Yeah, it’s a great question. I love telling this story. So about. Let’s see, in 2019. So now, about six years ago, I moved across the country from Atlanta, Georgia, to study international business and marketing at the University of San Francisco. And I went there because of what I perceive to be the wide variety of opportunities post graduation in the Bay Area. And of course, 2020, shortly after, was quite a noteworthy year for.

For COVID 19. And so shortly after the pandemic had began, I moved into my first apartment in downtown San Francisco. I lived in a neighborhood called the Tenderloin, which, for those who maybe aren’t familiar, is sort of like San Francisco’s version of skid row. A lot of homelessness, a lot of crime, and just generally a perception from people outside of the community that this is somewhere you shouldn’t visit. And so I lived there for about four years. But shortly after Covid began, I moved into my first apartment. And my apartment was actually viewed about eight encampments that were on the street in which I lived.

And it was from observing those encampments and also chatting with people who lived outside my building that I got really interested and passionate about homelessness. And both from kind of an emotional side of, like, it’s horrible that people have to be unhoused and live outside, but also from a philosophical standpoint of like, the US Is, for all intents and purposes, quite prosperous, quite innovative, and how we can’t end this situation was puzzling to me. And so I spent many, many days and months just chatting with people who lived outside my building and got very interested in the. In doing this work.

[00:03:18 – 00:03:54] Nitin Bajaj

This is fascinating, right? You make a plan and then you show up with all intents and purposes, and then something just transforms you. And I’m glad that you’re inquisitive enough and curious enough to make that intentional decision to do this work. So kudos to you and tell us a little more about home. Moritz, you’re very early in the setup, but give us a sense for what’s the mission, what’s the vision, and also a little sense for the impact you’ve been able to create so far.

[00:03:56 – 00:06:24] Zac Clark

Definitely, yeah. So, you know, from those many conversations that I had with people who lived outside my building, among the many challenges faced by people who are homeless, there were two that I really zeroed in on. One is that people had cell phones, but they couldn’t keep them charged or would go to great lengths to charge them. And another is that people had belongings, but they often got stolen, trashed, or thrown away. And so I zeroed in on those two ideas because we live in a very technological based world. And, you know, even for people experiencing homelessness, a phone can be the difference between, you know, getting an email or a phone call about a housing voucher or a shelter space. And so I, you know, saw that there were a number of people who were getting those emails and calls, but their phone was dead and they couldn’t get access to them.

And another issue is that, you know, people’s belongings are constantly stolen. And so I zeroed in on those two ideas and I spent about a year developing what’s called our makeshift traveler. And we designed this to be what we selfishly like to think is the last backpack someone who’s homeless will ever need. It’s highly durable. It’s made from polyethylene recycled water bottles, and it features a solar panel with a battery. So people are able to take in sun with the pack, charge a battery, and then in turn charge their phone. And so this program has been our most noteworthy program.

We launched it in October of 2022. We, or I guess I at the time, spent about 150 days straight where every day I distributed one pack, sat down, learned someone’s story, and really connected with them. And we’ve grown the program over the past few years. And in 2025, we’ll distribute about 2500 packs across roughly 20 cities in California. And that’s as south as, like, places like San Diego and Orange county, places as north as Eureka and Reading. So we’ve really tried to take a California wide approach in fundraising and pitching a program. And ultimately our goal is, you know, there’s about 120,000 people who are unsheltered and will sleep outside tonight.

And so that’s the goal that we’re trying to reach.

[00:06:26 – 00:06:51] Nitin Bajaj

Truly fascinating work. Again, congratulations and kudos to you and the rest of the team for doing this really needed work. So thank you for doing what you’re doing now. The space you’re in, in and of itself is pretty challenging. If I were to ask you to call out the biggest challenge, what would that be?

[00:06:53 – 00:09:31] Zac Clark

Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, I think, I think I’ll give two challenges, one for the organization and then one kind of more broadly for, you know, the, this kind of area of work, I think, you know, for the organization. And by the way, I’m not going to take the easy route and say fundraising, although that is probably the easiest or the hardest challenge. But the hardest challenge for us has been kind of matching and measuring our impact because, you know, our, our backpack program costs $100 to distribute a pack to someone. And it, we’re very realistic in our approach. You know, we don’t go to bed at night and think we’re ending homelessness with this program.

But has it been game changing for people? It certainly has. And so I think, you know, in a, a sector like homelessness, being able to measure a program and quantify successes is extremely important. And it’s harder for us to do that given that, you know, our principal program is distributing a good that may or not be able to be followed up with in a reasonable amount of time. And so I think that’s an immediate challenge for us. A challenge for the sector is homelessness is so complex. And I had worked on a project for my thesis at UCLA, where I actually traveled to 40 or 58 counties in California, met with people experiencing homelessness and also organizations there.

It’s such a complex issue that a lot of times we think is unique to our metropolitan areas. But I went to a lot of counties and cities that the average Californian probably has never heard of, and there’s still a significant amount of people experiencing homelessness there. I guess my overarching challenge is that there are millions of other smaller challenges. It’s such a complex issue. And I think one takeaway that I’ve had from doing this work for four years is that there are certainly pathways into homelessness, but homelessness is a deeply, uniquely personal situation. And people are in this situation for deeply, uniquely personal reasons. And it’s hard to create programs and things that target all of those reasons.

[00:09:32 – 00:10:16] Nitin Bajaj

True. It’s in some ways, I’m glad that there’s a better understanding of the problem today than even maybe a couple years ago, because we were just trying to come up with that one magic wand that would just wipe out this problem, which now we know is not even possible. So I’m glad that you have taken on the mantle to solve for what I would expect and believe is an elongated but still a temporary status. And. But till we find that solution, how are we helping the people that are going through this phase? Because who knows how long this will be.

[00:10:17 – 00:11:14] Zac Clark

Exactly. Yeah. And that’s been our approach because there’s one school of thought that is, you know, we should be putting every dollar into permanent solutions. And, you know, the reality is, you know, let’s just discuss Los Angeles. You know, we. We celebrate these new complexes that are open that, you know, might have 1, 200 units. And it is amazing.

It is, you know, great that we’re placing an emphasis on new developments. But, you know, there’s 70,000 people who are homeless in Cal, in Los Angeles. And, you know, so there’s a clear mismatch in what we’re able to do. And so, in turn, our position has been we should invest most of the money into permanent solutions. But we can’t forget that there are still a large number of people who are unsheltered each night.

[00:11:15 – 00:11:41] Nitin Bajaj

And also, the math behind it is sustainable in and of itself. Right. So while the 200 are getting the permanent solution, what about the 69,800? And the solution itself is disproportionately more expensive than making the lives of the ones that are not getting that solution yet better in the interim.

So I love. Yes.

[00:11:41 – 00:11:49] Zac Clark

Yeah, I think it’s going to be a. A long time before we really know are able to move the needle for that reason.

[00:11:49 – 00:11:56] Nitin Bajaj

Yes, I agree. Now, on the flip side of challenges come opportunities. What’s the one you’re most excited about?

[00:11:58 – 00:13:08] Zac Clark

Yeah. So, you know, I’m excited to share that our makeshift Traveler backpack program is not the only thing that we’re doing. Next year, we’ll be launching a transitional housing program focused on workforce development. The idea is that it will be between 10 and 25 interim tiny home units, and the location is still to be determined, but we’re targeting rural communities in Northern California. And so I think, you know, kind of on that trend, you know, there. There are a lot of different behaviors and interests amongst the unhoused population. And, you know, a lot of people aren’t ready for permanent solutions.

They aren’t ready to take up, you know, their own apartment or things like that. And so, you know, our focus is on interim housing, it’s on workforce development. You know, there’s a significant part of the population who had a previous career, you know, still has that desire to, to work and be self sustaining. And so we’re excited that we’re working towards launching that program next year.

[00:13:09 – 00:13:35] Nitin Bajaj

Michael, super excited about that. Now, as we look forward into the future, I’d love for you to pause and reflect and share two moments where one, things did not work out as you had expected. There was disappointment, failure, and some lessons, and another instance where things exceeded your expectations and became a success beyond your imagination.

[00:13:36 – 00:17:07] Zac Clark

That’s a great question. You know, I’ll, I’ll start with the kind of disappointment. And we had launched this program, the backpack program, on October 1, 2022. I was a junior in college and nobody knew about this except for maybe a handful of, of my friends. And we launched on October 1, 2022. It was a Saturday and we had a CBS crew who followed us around big story air in 10 states and nobody knew. I didn’t tell any professors or anything.

And so within about two weeks, we started getting these emails that our zippers were breaking. And we had made 500 of these packs. They were in the Bay Area ready to go in San Francisco. And the 20 or so that we had given out, most all of them, the zippers were breaking. And of any feature of the backpack that, you know, wasn’t working, that’s kind of the most crucial one. And so we spent about four months working with a sewing company to put Velcro straps and fix the zippers. But that was kind of an immediate punch to the face because we had been, you know, working on this for over a year.

We had just launched it. And you know, you, you at times in this work, it’s a constant tango between showing the people who support you the work that you do, but not coming across as performative. And that first few months, it felt like it was the latter because we had the CBS story that had aired. We got all this attention, you know, raised all this money to make more. Yet the people who had received them were, you know, they were sharing all of these issues with the product. And so, you know, naturally we fixed the product and made it better. But I think that was kind of an initial big challenge.

The second part let’s see, I think the second part I would mention kind of our pursuit to open up opportunities statewide. So in 2023, that summer, I had graduated from USF and decided to move to LA to do my master’s at UCLA. And when I had moved, I had decided that I was not going to only focus on raising funds for San Francisco.

And so we. I took on this new approach of contacting every government agency up and down California, applying to every foundation that would solicit requests and the funding that came out of that and the opportunities presented us to be able to distribute our pack in about 20 cities last year, which was amazing. I was able to travel the states, meet all these different great people, and deliver the program, you know, at a greater scale. So I think that was something that I initially thought as I was sending all these cold emails, you know, nobody would respond. But shortly, the veterans agency in Solano, the Human Services agency in Santa Cruz, people started to kind of rally around it. And that was really surprising to me.

[00:17:09 – 00:17:23] Nitin Bajaj

That’s really cool. Well, I don’t know if it should have been a surprise, but it should have been okay. There are people that resonate and there’s validation for what we are doing. So, I mean, you put in all the hard work over the years, so I’m not surprised that people respond.

[00:17:25 – 00:17:25] Zac Clark

I know.

[00:17:26 – 00:17:28] Nitin Bajaj

Now I think it’s, go ahead.

[00:17:28 – 00:18:00] Zac Clark

No, I think it’s natural tendency as anything that you create, you kind of have this. I mean, I still get like this, you know, when we, when we go to events or I pitch the program. You know, I, I’m. I kind of describe this journey as I’m. I just took the, the. Oh, I’m blanking on the extra wheels off of a tricycle and I’m just waiting to tip over, but I haven’t tipped over yet. And it’s just.

Yeah, I’m still living the dream.

[00:18:01 – 00:18:36] Nitin Bajaj

Love that. And I don’t see you tipping over anytime. This is fascinating work that you’re doing now as you, you’re clearly passionate about this, but I like to ask people what do they do to step away from this? And I’m sure it’s fun to see. You know, it’s very rewarding to see people benefiting, especially your beneficiaries, getting the rewards of your passion and your labor of love. But what do you do to de. Stress, Step off the gas and just go have fun?

[00:18:36 – 00:19:45] Zac Clark

Yeah, well, I’m, I’m, you know, not to sound like someone on an infomercial, but I, I love. I’m very active. I like, you know, going to the gym. Very rooted in, in some daily activity, whether it’s lifting or running or something like that. And, you know, I also am very thankful that my organization, we’re at a scale right now where we have two paid employees, one of them being me. We have a few interns, and then we have a board who’s very supportive of me and everything that I want to do. And so, you know, I, I guess it’s a gift and a curse that my, at times, my ways of de stressing are other forms of.

But there’s a lot of projects that I’m interested in. You know, I’m not interested in solely homelessness. I’ll be directing a business program at Georgetown this summer for a month and a half. You know, I like to get involved in different things and dibble and dabble as much as I can. For now.

[00:19:46 – 00:20:14] Nitin Bajaj

I love that. It’s, it’s good to have those avenues to be able to project your creativity, your passions, and be it doing a heavy cardio or just, you know, pushing weights, it just gets the, the motions going and keeps you alive and active. I love that. Is there a book or a podcast that is a favorite and you would like to share a good question?

[00:20:14 – 00:20:54] Zac Clark

I would kind of intersect the two and give you a person. Someone I’ve, I’ve followed for the past few years and I’m a big fan of is a guy named Scott Galloway. And, you know, it’s funny because, you know, my, my girlfriend or my family will pose these, these questions of like, oh, if you could, you know, have dinner with one celebrity or you could meet one celebrity, who would it be? And they expect like, oh, I wish it could be LeBron James or something, but it’s actually Scott Gallow. Like, I would, I would love to meet him.

Do you know Scott?

[00:20:54 – 00:20:57] Nitin Bajaj

Yes, yes. Fascinating. The professor.

[00:20:57 – 00:21:13] Zac Clark

Yes. Yeah, I just love him the way he articulates things and, and yeah, I’m a big fan. So his podcasts, I have all, I don’t know if it’s six or five or six of his books. I’m a huge fan of his.

[00:21:13 – 00:21:28] Nitin Bajaj

So, yeah, he’s an amazing guy to know, to know of and to follow. Sure. Now onto my favorite part of the show.

We call it the online life lessons. And like, I would love for you to share your life lessons with us.

[00:21:30 – 00:22:32] Zac Clark

Definitely. You know, again, I, I, I, I like to pull things from other people. I, I have some originality, but I’m not sure there’s a lot of Smart, Smart and great people. So you know, my, my all time favorite quote and the quote that I live by each day is from a man named Naval Rivkah. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of him. Yeah, and his quote is, is there’s three things in life. Your health, your mission, and the people you love.

And so that’s a quote that I try to live by every day. At times the health part is compromised by some other activities and good food here in Los Angeles. But you know, I think that that quote to me really embodies and boils down everything into a, a very consumable framework because at the end of the day, you know, those, those are three, three areas that I, I try to really work on in my life. So yeah, that would be one.

[00:22:34 – 00:22:59] Nitin Bajaj

I love that. And I, I resonate with a lot of his thoughts. Distilling the big pieces into simple things that we can process and understand. And if it’s too complicated, we lose track of things. So yeah, at the end of the day it essentially, at least for me, it comes down to those three very basic but very prominent things that one should be focused on delivering to.

[00:23:00 – 00:24:10] Zac Clark

Exactly. Yeah. And I’ll share one or two that I, I, I stole from you. But one of those is that I really liked. His age is a matter of attitude. And you know, I think that really resonated with me because I’ve in, I say this acknowledging that there’s of course always trade offs in life in the way that you, you choose to live your life. But I’ve always thought of myself as a bit older or a bit of an old soul than my current age.

And, and that quote really resonates with me because, you know, I, I started my non profit organization when I was 19 and you know, I have certainly given pitches and presentations to, to people much older than myself. And you know, I think it’s interesting too, and it’s very interesting that this is transpiring right now given that I just finished school because essentially Monday is the first day in, in 20 years that I haven’t been a student. And so I’m finally full time and working for my organization. So, you know, things have come full circle.

[00:24:11 – 00:24:29] Nitin Bajaj

Well, congratulations on that milestone. It’s. And, and I would say, you know, more than age, more than the older perspective to it, it’s the clarity and with that, the wisdom that it brings along. So you’re a role model and a living example of that.

[00:24:30 – 00:24:31] Zac Clark

Thank you, thank you.

[00:24:34 – 00:24:36] Nitin Bajaj

Other life lessons, we would love to hear those.

[00:24:37 – 00:26:03] Zac Clark

Yes, Another one is, is life is a marathon. I’ve always resonated with that, that quote as well. You know, I think that it, I have these kind of reverse thoughts in, in, in this like, perspective of time that, that life is, you know, and, and I’m, I’m 24 right now and you know, I have these kind of like these almost anxiety attacks at times that are like, you know, oh, I’m turning 25 this year.

I’m five years from 30. Like 30 sounds so old. And then I have these other thoughts of I’ve really only been an adult for five or six years and like selfishly, but I’m, I’m proud of what I’ve done in those five or six years. And so like, think about what I could do in another 10 years and then I’d be 35, which, you know, doesn’t sound that old. So I have these kind of like reverse, like just presumptions about time that I of course haven’t experienced. And I think I always go back to that same thought of like, you know, life is, is a marathon. I’m, I’m playing a 10 year game, I’m not playing a two month game.

And so I, I, you know, try to have that perspective. But at times it’s like, wow, I’m 25, quarter of the way to 100.

[00:26:04 – 00:26:47] Nitin Bajaj

But yeah, so I love that pressure, but I also love that the pause you’re able to get in saying, okay, what’s, what’s on the other end of it? What have I accomplished so far? And be able to not pacify yourself but say, dude, chill. I mean, it’s okay, you know, we’re doing great. It’s almost like you’re talking to yourself, right? You’re kind of stepping out and having these arguments with yourself coming to extremes. So I see that as a sign of a lot of maturity.

Again where you’re pushing yourself, but not mindlessly.

[00:26:49 – 00:27:32] Zac Clark

It’s important to have that. You know, at times it’s funny because I, you know, I sometimes think like that perspective is very good and it’s healthy, but at times it’s like, you know, I kind of wish maybe I, you know, we always want what we can’t have. But at times I think of like, maybe it’d be nice if I didn’t have any perspective at all. And I just kind of lived the day like not thinking about anything else and you know, kind of like the. You look at the animals around you and you’re like, huh, does that dog? Isn’t planning for tomorrow. So I don’t know.

It’s different ways and ways to live life, for sure.

[00:27:33 – 00:27:49] Nitin Bajaj

Yes, I agree. We. We are who we are. And as long as we put that and put ourselves to the purpose and the passion and keep driving us, we’re fine. We don’t. We’re not judging ourselves. So that’s the best thing.

[00:27:50 – 00:27:53] Zac Clark

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Let’s see.

[00:27:53 – 00:27:54] Nitin Bajaj

I’ll.

[00:27:54 – 00:27:56] Zac Clark

I have one more, if that’s good.

[00:27:56 – 00:27:57] Nitin Bajaj

Please.

[00:27:57 – 00:28:29] Zac Clark

And this question kind of actually leads into a project that I’m going to be pursuing in the fall and early next year. But that question is, what’s your story? And I pose this question as I’m working through a new project that I’m hoping to compile a thousand stories of homelessness into a single book later this year. And, you know, it’s.

[00:28:29 – 00:28:29] Nitin Bajaj

It’s.

[00:28:30 – 00:29:53] Zac Clark

That phrase is kind of makes me think of a lot of things. Of course, we’re living in quite a divisive time right now. You know, we’re both in Los Angeles. There’s, of course, a lot of things going on right now. And, you know, I think for a topic like homelessness, you know, homelessness is so visual. And what happens with it being so visual is that we observe people who are experiencing homelessness. We make assumptions, and then those assumptions turn into generalizations that we share.

And there are so many narratives about people experiencing homelessness who. And what I think are just quite wrong, having done this work for the past four years. And so this project that I’ll be pursuing later this year really tries to get at that, you know, that narrative that I think is false and to share enough stories at a scale that I think is meaningful and people can really read through and understand. So that’s a project I’m excited about. Again, the core of that project is to ask people what their story is and try to document that in a consumable and helpful manner.

[00:29:54 – 00:30:37] Nitin Bajaj

It sounds super exciting. I’m looking forward to that. It’s a fresh perspective, I believe, that’s missing and is very needed, especially where we are and kind of beat through those perceptions that we pretend to have, as you said. So again, congratulations on all of your success so far, and I know you’re just getting started. And thank you again for making the time to share your journey, your story, and your life lessons with us. Also, congratulations on the graduation and no pressure, but we are looking forward to you continuing to make some really good impact in our communities.

[00:30:38 – 00:30:40] Zac Clark

Great. Thanks so much for having me.